19

20 Court Reporter: HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR
United States District Court
21 Two Uniondale Avenue
Uniondale, New York 11553
22 (516) 485-6558

23
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
24 produced by Computer-Assisted Transcription
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9604

1 M O R N I N G S E S S I O N

2

3 (The following takes place in the absence of the

4 jury at 9:21 a.m.)

5 THE COURT: Is everybody here?

6 MR. SCHOER: I apologize for being late, your

7 Honor.

8 THE COURT: I shall be back.

9

10 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

11

12 THE COURT: With respect to the case on trial, is

13 everybody here now?

14 MR. JENKS: Yes.

15 MR. SCHOER: Yes.

16 MR. TRABULUS: I think so.

17 THE COURT: The jurors all arrived approximately

18 ten minutes ago, or earlier. We weren't inside when they

19 buzzed, but they are here at least ten minutes.

20 I have marked as a Court Exhibit the following

21 documents: Number one, all the requests to charge.

22 Number two, the original indictment, the revised

23 indictment, and the second revised indictment, cutting off
24 the forfeiture. I have the list of exhibits, government
25 and defense.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9605

1 Now, getting to the order of business, the

2 exhibits, has everyone reviewed the exhibits?

3 MR. WHITE: The government reviewed the defense

4 exhibits.

5 THE COURT: Are the defense exhibits correct,

6 satisfactory to go in to the jury?

7 MR. WHITE: Yes.

8 THE COURT: You agree that they are correct?

9 MR. WHITE: Yes.

10 THE COURT: Okay.

11 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I agree that the

12 government exhibits are satisfactory to go in on behalf of

13 Mr. Gordon. Let me explain what I did yesterday. I did

14 not have the mental acuity and physical stamina at that

15 point to go through each and every one of them.

16 THE COURT: I don't know. Mr. White did. Are

17 you conceding he has more acuity and stamina than you

18 did?

19 MR. SCHOER: He has Mr. Pagano.

20 THE COURT: All right, Mr. Pagano is here.

21 So, you are not conceding that?

22 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I looked at the exhibits with

23 Mr. Trabulus, your Honor. We examined the redacted
24 exhibits, those that were not in evidence to be sure that
25 they weren't there. Beyond that everything appears to be

HARRY RAP APORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9606

1 in order. There were 1600 some exhibits, and frankly, I

2 trust Mr. White and Inspector Pagano's good faith that

3 they have not done anything untoward with the exhibits.

4 They appear to be in order.

5 MR. TRABULUS: That's right. We went through the

6 redacted exhibits. They are properly redacted. We made

7 sure the unredacted versions were not with the exhibits.

8 We looked at almost everything that they proposed

9 to get in, and it got in. So we did it in the reverse

10 way, and looked at things which were not exhibited, and

11 those are the things that were excluded. I accept their

12 good faith with respect to the rest of them.

13 THE COURT: You are satisfied that the exhibits

14 are in order and can go in?

15 MR. TRABULUS: Yes.

16 THE COURT: Mr. Wallenstein?

17 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes .

18 THE COURT: Anybody not consent?

19 (No response.)

20 THE COURT: Let's send in the exhibits.

21 THE CLERK: The marshals have to take them in.

22 THE COURT: Get the marshal to take them then.

23 THE CLERK: Everything but the tapes and the
24 CD-ROM?
25 THE COURT: Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9607

1 MR. JENKS: And the videotapes.

2 THE COURT: That's right.

3 How about the lists?

4 THE CLERK: I have the defense list, the

5 government revised their list.

6 MR. WHITE: We have it here.

7 THE COURT: All right. Have them bring in the

8 exhibits and wait on the defense list until the

9 government's list is ready.

10 MR. WHITE: I have it here.

11 THE COURT: Do that now.

12 THE CLERK: Yes.

13 THE COURT: Now, that brings up the question of

14 the alterna te jurors I brought in today, and my courtroom

15 deputy had told them to have considerable reading material

16 available. If they don't have enough I will give them

17 some of my motions to do, which I am always delinquent in.

18 Any decision by the defense attorneys with

19 respect to what I suggested?

20 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I spoke first

21 yesterday. I don't know if there is any unanimous

22 decision. I can tell you what Mr. Gordon's position is.

23 First of all, I want to make it clear. I am
24 not -- we are not looking in any way, shape or form for a
25 mistrial. So Mr. Gordon is prepared to enter into the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9608

1 type of stipulation that your Honor proposed, with the

2 suggestion that if we get to the point that there is

3 eleven and then one disappears, don't just seat one of the

4 alternates, seat both if they are both available. If only

5 one alternate is available at that point, seat that one.

6 But it is better to seat that two -- seat the two because

7 you are more likely to have a beginning again, and you

8 have twelve, and if one of them disappeared you would have

9 eleven.

10 What I would like to discuss, and other counsel

11 discussed this, let's say the deliberations goes on for a

12 week or so and the problem arises, we may consent to

13 stipulate to have a jury of ten. We didn't want to

14 foreclose that.

15 THE COURT: I didn't ask that at this point.

16 That would be even radical for me. Although in certain

17 states they do it all the time. In fact, they have

18 non-unanimous verdicts. There is nothing unconstitutional

19 about it.

20 However, what I would like to get a stipulation

21 to, if we need it, if it ev er occurs, that if the jury --

22 if two of the present deliberating juries leave, I would

23 like the right, and everybody stipulate to send in, and I
24 agree, the two remaining alternate jurors, or one, if we
25 lose one of the alternate jurors.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9609

1 Now, in the event that one of the deliberating

2 jurors leave, we go with the eleven, we do nothing, we do

3 not send anybody in.

4 If two or more of the deliberating -- well, let's

5 go with two. If two of the deliberating jurors are

6 excused, and it would have to be a real extreme reason to

7 be excused, illness, death, something like that, then I

8 will want the right to put in two or one, whoever the

9 remaining alternate jurors are, put them in. And I will

10 instruct the jury with a real serious instruction that

11 they are to start all over again with the two new jurors.

12 That's the stipulation I would like to have.

13 MR. TRABULUS: Mr. Gordon so stipulates.

14 MR. JENKS: I will stipulate to that also, your

15 Honor.

16 MR. SCHOER: We would stipulate on behalf of

17 Ms. Garboski.

18 MR. NELSON: We would stipulation on behalf of

19 Mr. Osman.

20 MR. LEE: On behalf of Ms. Weitz, I stipulate,

21 your Honor.

22 MR. DUNN: On behalf of Steve Rubin I stipulate

23 also, your Honor.
24 MR. NEVILLE: On behalf of Scott Michavelson I
25 stipulate.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9610

1 MR. GEDULDIG: I stipulate on behalf of Annette

2 Haley.

3 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I will so stipulate on behalf

4 of Martin Reffsin.

5 MR. WHITE: The government stipulates as well,

6 your Honor.

7 THE COURT: Did we send in the indictment?

8 THE CLERK: Not yet.

9 THE COURT: We have a note from the jury -- who

10 is the foreperson?

11 THE CLERK: Thomas Boudreau.

12 THE COURT: B O U D R E A U. Who is Thomas

13 Boudreau?

14 MR. TRABULUS: The young man in the back. I am

15 not sure which number he is.

16 THE CLERK: I think he is number eight, your

17 Honor.

18 MR. TRABULUS: I think he is number 10.

19 MR. WHITE: He is number 10.

20 THE COURT: He is juror number 10.

21 MR. TRABULUS: He is juror number 10, yes.

22 THE COURT: I can't place him, but I am sure you

23 can.
24 The note is printed in very small letters. Here
25 is what it says, I think.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9611

1 Honorable Judge Spatt. At this time we would

2 like to request that we can obtain our copies, is that?

3 Madam deputy, would you take a look at this? What does

4 this say here? Does this say we can obtain our copies or

5 one copy?

6 THE CLERK: Our copies.

7 THE COURT: Okay.

8 At this time we would like to request that we can

9 obtain our copies of the transcripts as well as a copy of

10 the indictment.

11 We are sending in four copies of the revised

12 indictment.

13 Any objection to that?

14 MR. DUNN: No, your Honor.

15 MR. JENKS: No objection.

16 MR. WHITE: No objection.

17 THE COURT: As far as their transcripts, I

18 thought they had their copy of the transcripts.

19 MR. JENKS: They left it in the box.

20 MR. WHITE: It is in the binders.

21 THE COURT: Any objection to getting them the

22 transcripts?

23 MR. TRABULUS: No, your Honor.
24 MR. NELSON: No.
25 THE COURT: We will give them the list of



HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9612

1 exhibits, the exhibits, four copies of the indictment and

2 the transcripts.

3 There is no copy of the indictments in the books,

4 I am sure of that.

5 MR. SCHOER: No. There may be other exhibits.

6 But everything they have was actually introduced, so they

7 are getting it anyway.

8 THE COURT: Those books do not include anything

9 that is not in evidence, do they?

10 MR. TRABULUS: No, Judge,.

11 MR. WALLENSTEIN: No.

12 MR. JENKS: They do not.

13 THE COURT: All right. We will get the

14 housekeeping out of the way.

15 As far as the charge, I have to add the matters

16 that I instructed them, the last matters, and also do some

17 housekeeping on grammar and things like that. I will let

18 you know when that is all ready before it goes in.

19 How are the alter nates doing?

20 THE CLERK: They are upstairs in Judge Platt's

21 jury room. They want to know when they can leave.

22 THE COURT: I will go up to talk to the

23 alternates myself right now.
24 Any objection?
25 MR. TRABULUS: No.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9613

1 THE COURT: All right.

2 THE COURT: All right.

3 These notes will be Court Exhibits, of course.

4 (The following takes place in Judge Platt's jury

5 room in the presence of the alternate jurors.)

6 THE COURT: You are about to make judicial

7 history.

8 Apparently all the lawyers and the Court think so

9 highly of you, that they want to keep you around.

10 In the event that we possibly may lose any of the

11 deliberating jurors -- I preface my remark by saying if

12 this trial was a week or two weeks involving one, two or

13 three defendants, we probably would have discharged you.

14 But the trial is twelve weeks involving ten defendants,

15 and we would like to avoid, if we could -- only in

16 accordance with the evidence and the law in the case --

17 avoiding another trial.

18 We have all agreed, everybody, all the lawyers,

19 government, defense, that in the event more than one juror

20 is excused in the deliberating jury because of some

21 serious condition, death, God forbid, illness, something

22 like that, that both of you could go in, and we would have

23 to start the deliberations all over again with you.
24 Now that is a unique thing. This is not done all
25 the time. Very rarely is anything like this done, which I

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9614

1 think is somewhat a tribute to the fact that they think

2 you are fair and imp artial and have an open mind, both

3 sides. So I am going to have to keep you.

4 ALTERNATE JUROR NO. 1: Okay.

5 THE COURT: We will give you reading material, or

6 you can bring in things to do, whatever you want. You can

7 stroll around. You don't have to be staying in here. You

8 can walk around, as long as one of you stays, so you can

9 get the other one. And be free to go out, take a walk,

10 have some air, anything like that as long as we know where

11 to get you.

12 I am sorry for keeping you. On the one hand I am

13 sorry. On the other hand I am happy you are here.

14 Also, do not discuss the case even among

15 yourselves or anyone else. Don't say, what would happen

16 if we get in here, what do you think we should do? That's

17 very important. The law requires that you not discuss

18 anything. It is only if you get in to deliberate.

19 ALTERNATE JUROR NO. 1: Yes, sir.

20 THE COURT: If you want to talk to me about

21 anything, let me know.

22 ALTERNATE JUROR NO. 1: Thank you.

23 ALTERNATE JUROR NO. 2: Thank you.
24 THE COURT: It has been a pleasure.
25 (The following takes place in open court.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9615

1 THE COURT: Bring everyone in on the case on

2 trial, please.

3 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

4 proceedings.)

5 (The following takes place at 9:48 p.m.)

6 THE COURT: Case on trial, everyone is present?

7 MR. TRABULUS: Yes, your Honor.

8 THE COURT: First announcement. One of the

9 defendants used the men's room on this floor here,

10 Mr. Rubin.

11 It is even more egregious to do that while the

12 jury is deliberating right next door. Don't do that. I

13 thought I made it clear that the males are to use the

14 upstairs bathroom.

15 Second, the jurors -- I am going to ask them to

16 come out and pick up their own books, so we can do it more

17 efficiently.

18 Any objection to that?

19 MR. JENKS: No, your Honor.

20 MR. TRABULUS: No, your Honor.

21 MR. LEE: No, your Honor.

22 MR. GEDULDIG: No, your Honor.

23 THE COURT: Let's have the marshals escort them
24 out.
25 (Eleven jury enters the courtroom at 9:52 a.m.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9616

1 THE COURT: Good morning, members of the jury.

2 Where is Juror No. 1?

3 JUROR NO. 7: He has his book.

4 THE COURT: She has?

5 JUROR NO. 7: He.

6 THE COURT: He, forgive me.

7 I was worried when we only had 11 persons.

8 All right, you have your books there, that's why

9 I brought you out. To say good morning and get your

10 books.

11 Thank you for your usual punctuality and

12 diligence and strength in carrying these books.

13 All right. Everybody has them?

14 THE JURORS: Yes.

15 THE COURT: Marshal, you may escort the jurors

16 back to the deliberation room.

17 (The jury leaves the courtroom at 9:54 p.m.)

18 THE CLERK: Court Exhibit 1, government's

19 requests to charge.

20 Court Exhibit 2, defendant Gordon's first request

21 to charge.

22 Court Exhibit 3, defendant Gordon's second

23 request to charge.
24 Court Exhibit 4, defendant Gordon's third request
25 to charge.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9617

1 Court Exhibit 5, defendant Garboski's request to

2 charge.

3 Court Exhibit 6, defendant Osman's request to

4 charge.

5 Court Exhibit 7, defendant Reffsi n's request to

6 charge.

7 Court Exhibit 8 original superseding indictment.

8 Court Exhibit 9, redacted superseding

9 indictment,.

10 Court Exhibit 10, jury note.

11

12 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

13

14 (The following takes place in the absence of the

15 jury at 10:15 a.m.)

16 THE COURT: Mr. Trabulus, as a representative of

17 counsel here, I would like to let you know that the

18 indictment is now handed to the jury, and they have the

19 exhibits and the exhibit list.

20 MR. TRABULUS: Yes, your Honor.

21 THE COURT: The jury has the exhibits and their

22 own notebooks now.

23 We have a note.
24 We would like to request a copy of the charge,
25 paren, and law, as presented by you yesterday, as well as

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9618

1 a dictionary.

2 The second note is: Honorable Judge Spatt, the

3 first note is the same, and I like that.

4 While waiting for "the charge" and the "law" as

5 presented by you yesterday. A few jurors request a brief

6 cigarette break.

7 Any objection to giving them a cigarette break?

8 We will give them a cigarette break. And you can

9 advise the marshal, to tell them they will not be able to

10 have the charge for several hours. We are doing it right

11 now. But I am doing several other things at the same

12 time.

13 MR. SCHOER: Judge, you are not going to send

14 them a dictionary?

15 THE COURT: No dictionary.

16 MR. SCHOER: Perhaps you can let them know, I

17 don't know what your procedure would be for future

18 cigarette breaks?

19 THE COURT: They always have to send a note.

20 That's the way we do it. Everything is by note.

21 I am not sending in a dictionary. Any objection

22 to that?

23 MR. TRABULUS: No.
24 THE COURT: Now, I can -- with regard to the size
25 of this company, you can stipulate in advance, if you want

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9619

1 to do it now, that when I get a note for a cigarette

2 break, I can send them out without consulting you.

3 MR. WALLENSTEIN: So stipulated.

4 MR. TRABULUS: So stipulated.

5 THE COURT: Anybody object to that?

6 MR. WHITE: No.

7 MR. NELSON: No, your Honor.

8 THE COURT: That's what we will do.

9 They will be told no dictionary and the charge

10 will be sent in in several hours.

11 THE CLERK: Two jury notes, Court Exhibits 11 and

12 12.

13 (A recess is taken awaiting further communication

14 from the jury.)

15 THE CLERK: Court Exhibit 13, Government Exhibit

16 list.

17 Court Exhibit 14, defendant exhibit list

18

19 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

20

21 (The following takes place in the absence of the

22 jury at 10:59 a.m.)

23 THE COURT: I have a note.
24 Since it is such a beautiful day out, I would
25 like -- we would like to eat lunch outside at the two

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9620

1 picnic tables.

2 I see no objection. The marshal will have them

3 under surveillance, they are in a small room cooped up.

4 Please, everybody, keep away from those picnic

5 tables.

6 THE CLERK: Jury note is marked as Court Exhibit

7 number 15.

8 (Recess is taken awaiting further communication

9 from the jury.)

10

11 (The following takes place in the absence of the

12 jury at 12:30 p.m.)

13 THE COURT: We received a note from th e jury.

14 Honorable Judge Spatt: Please let us hear the

15 testimony of Martin Reffsin as it pertains to usage logs,

16 as well as the testimony of Maria Gaspar, as it pertains

17 to usage logs.

18 Respectfully.

19 Also, the lunch is here. We have not given it to

20 them yet. I intend to send it in now. And I intend to

21 take a recess for lunch until -- I think that the lawyers

22 ought to get together on the testimony before you go to

23 lunch. We will recess until 1:30. We will tell the jury
24 that we will have the read back after 1:30.
25 Meanwhile right now you ought to get together.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9621

1 You have the transcripts. It should be very easy. The

2 lawyers involved ought to do that. The other lawyers and

3 parties should go to lunch. We will recess to 1:30.

4 At 1:30 you will let me know whether you have

5 agreed upon the pages of the transcript, and I will do the

6 reading.

7 If you didn't agree, I will resolve any

8 disagreement at 1:30.

9 In addition, the jurors are going to eat lunch

10 outside on the two tables. Stay away from there,

11 everybody.

12 Why don't the lawyers stick around and delineate

13 the pages in the transcript by writing it out for me.

14 We will see you at 1:30.

15 (Luncheon Recess.)

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9622

1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N

2

3 THE COURT: Have we gone through the record? Do

4 we have the transcripts?

5 MR. TRABULUS: Yes, we do.

6 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Your Honor, Mr. Trabulus and I

7 have agreed. We have gone through all the transcripts of

8 Mr. Reffsin and Mrs. Gaspar. Mr. White has done the

9 same. We have not had an opportunity to compare notes to

10 present you with a united front yet. If you give us ten

11 minutes we can handle that.

12 THE COURT: Do that. Meanwhile we will take the

13 next matter.

14 (A recess is taken at 1:35 p.m.)

15 (The following takes place at 2:20 p.m.)

16 THE COURT: Is everyone in the courtroom?

17 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Your Honor, Mr. Dunn went to

18 find Mr. Osman and Mr. Rubin.

19 THE COURT: Let me know when everyone is here.

20 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

21 proceedings.)

22 THE COURT: I know you are putting these lists

23 together so I can read it more easily.
24 I want to excuse the alternates now until Monday
25 at 9:30.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9623

1 Any objection to that?

2 MR. DUNN: No, your Honor.

3 MR. WHITE: No objection.

4 THE COURT: No sense in keeping them now.

5

6 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

7

8 (The following takes place in the absence of the

9 jury at 2:40 p.m.)

10 THE COURT: It is a good thing I told the jury

11 there would be some delay after they make a request. It

12 has been two and a half hours?

13 MR. TRABULUS: During which I spent all but five

14 minutes working diligently.

15 THE COURT: It is the system. Can you imagine if

16 we didn't have a transcript? It would take two and a half

17 days to do it.

18 MR. WALLENSTEIN: We wouldn't do it; Harry would

19 have to do it.

20 THE COURT: Who is Harry?

21 Do you have the list?

22 MR. WHITE: Yes, your Honor.

23 The note indicated they wanted the t estimony of
24 those two witnesses as it pertained to the logs, the usage
25 logs. We interpreted that to mean testimony, not simply

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9624

1 regarding the actual creation of the logs, but where the

2 witnesses were asked about the logs in connection with the

3 witnesses' interviews by law enforcement agents.

4 In other words, Ms. Gaspar was asked about the

5 logs in meetings with the agents, and she was

6 cross-examined about that, and the same thing with

7 Mr. Reffsin.

8 THE COURT: If they want to hear additional

9 testimony, they will let us know.

10 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I think we gave you everything

11 that there was pertaining to the logs or discussion about

12 the logs.

13 MR. TRABULUS: Right.

14 THE COURT: Now, all the testimony by all sides

15 are on this sheet, w hich we will make a Court Exhibit; is

16 that right?

17 MR. WHITE: Yes.

18 MR. TRABULUS: Yes.

19 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes. We have agreed on that

20 list.

21 THE COURT: Let's bring the jury in.

22 THE MARSHAL: Jury entering.

23 (The jury enters the courtroom at 2:45 a.m.)
24 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the
25 jury.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9625

1 The note is: Honorable Judge Spatt. I like

2 that.

3 Please let us hear the testimony of Martin

4 Reffsin as it pertains to usage logs, as well as the

5 testimony of Maria Gaspar as it pertains to usage logs.

6 I told you it will take time to get the

7 information, and you saw that it did. The lawyers were

8 busily working on this all the time from the time you sent

9 us the note, through the lunch hour. But we do have it

10 now.

11 Direct examination of Maria Gaspar by Mr. White,

12 page 1678, line 1.

13 (The Court reads the testimony as indicated.)

14 THE COURT: Page 1732, cross-examination of Maria

15 Gaspar by Norman Trabulus.

16 (The Court reads the testimony as indicated.)

17 THE COURT: Going to page 1744, line 5. Can used

18 cross-examination of Maria Gaspar by Norman Trabulus.

19 (The Court reads from the testimony as

20 indicated.)

21 THE COURT: I am going to read all of this. We

22 certainly will not get through by 4:00 o'clock when we

23 will recess. There is additional testimony, not as
24 lengthy segments as this here. But I will continue doing
25 that, until I hear, if I ever do, from the jury, that they

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9626

1 don't want to hear any more. That does occur sometimes.

2 I will hear everything. I will continue to 4:00 o'clock.

3 When you come back at Monday morning, I will continue at

4 9:30 unless I hear from you to the contrary.

5 You can't deliberate in public. Do you want a

6 recess?

7 JUROR NO. 6: Yes.

8 THE COURT: I am fully prepared to read all of

9 this. In fairness I should read all of this. You are in

10 control. When you say stop, I stop. Otherwise I go

11 through the whole thing.

12 As I said, there are a number of other segments,

13 but not as long pieces as I told you now. But I am fully

14 prepared to, and will read everything.

15 We will recess the jury for five minutes and see

16 what they want to do.

17 (The jury leaves the courtroom at 3:26 p.m.)

18 THE COURT: I would like the record to indicate

19 that juror number 12 made some kind of sign like a

20 football coach would make for time out, s omething like

21 that; and juror number five started to talk to my deputy

22 clerk, and we cut it off. This is what I observed.

23 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I would like to indicate for
24 the record, I know the cross-examination of Mrs. Gaspar is
25 not completed. They have not heard the testimony of my

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9627

1 client either. I would ask that you read the balance of

2 the testimony that they originally asked for. I don't

3 think they got a full picture of the testimony or with

4 respect to the logs unless they get everything they asked

5 for.

6 THE COURT: You are right. But they can change

7 their mind. They do that very often.

8 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I understand.

9 THE COURT: If you insist that I read it -- if

10 they come back with a note saying they don't want to hear

11 any more, and you insist that I do it, I will do it.

12 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I will not do it in front of

13 them.

14 THE COURT: Not in front have them. And I will

15 not tell them that. But if you insist on my reading the

16 rest of the it, I will do it.

17 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Why not wait and see what they

18 say first?

19 THE COURT: See what they say. Okay.

20

21 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

22

23 (The following takes place at 3:37 p.m.)
24 THE COURT: Is everybody here?
25 MR. WALLENSTEIN: No, actually.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9628

1 THE COURT: Let's get them in.

2 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

3 proceedings.)

4 THE COURT: Everybody in the room?

5 MR. SCHOER: Yes.

6 THE COURT: I received another note. I don't

7 have to start each note with honorable Judge Spatt.

8 That's how they start. Very respectfully.

9 At this time we would like to hear the direct and

10 redirect testimony of Mr. Reffsin concerning the logs. We

11 would also like to know when we will receive Judge Spatt's

12 charge in regard to the law.

13 Well, we have the charge ready, and we are

14 sending it in. I tell you now that we added the two

15 additional requests that were made.

16 Do you want to hear what we added, Mr. Trabulus?

17 It is what I told them.

18 MR. TRABULUS: No. I am sure it is fine, your

19 Honor.

20 THE COURT: It is what I told them.

21 We are sending in the two logs --

22 MR. TRABULUS: Not the logs.

23 THE COURT: What a slip that was.
24 We are sending in the two charge books.
25 They must have read your mind, Mr. Wallenstein.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9 629

1 They want to hear Mr. Reffsin's testimony.

2 MR. WALLENSTEIN: I hope it is good.

3 THE COURT: Is it satisfactory that I read that?

4 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes, sir.

5 MR. WHITE: The passages we identified, the first

6 one was the direct of Mr. Reffsin. The second one is

7 cross. And there is no redirect.

8 THE COURT: I will give them the direct and

9 cross. Or do you want me not to give them the cross? I

10 will ask the jury. They will have to go out and send

11 another note, or else I can read them the direct and the

12 redirect.

13 MR. TRABULUS: There is no redirect.

14 THE COURT: Direct and cross.

15 MR. TRABULUS: If they only want to hear direct

16 and not the cross, I would prefer they only hear the

17 direct.

18 THE COURT: I will ask them.

19 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Didn't they say they want to

20 hear his testimony?

21 THE COURT: No. They said at this time we would

22 like to hear the direct and redirect testimony of

23 Mr. Reffsin.
24 MR. WALLENSTEIN: You can leave out the cross.
25 MR. TRABULUS: Unless they mean the direct and

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9630

1 the redirect not having to do with the logs.

2 THE COURT: No, I don't believe so.

3 Let's see.

4 I will ask them what they mean, direct, direct

5 and redirect, or direct and cross, or whatever they mean.

6 MR. WALLENSTEIN: There was no redirect on the

7 issue of the logs.

8 THE COURT: Can I tell them that?

9 I will tell them in the courtroom -- does anybody

10 have any objection if I go in and tell them that there is

11 no redirect, or if they want to hear the cross rather than

12 bringing them out, rather than coming out and going back

13 aga in?

14 MR. WALLENSTEIN: No objection.

15 MR. WHITE: No objection, your Honor. The cross

16 is only five pages.

17 THE COURT: I am not going to tell them that.

18 MR. WHITE: Just for you, your Honor.

19 MR. TRABULUS: They are in very fine type.

20 (The following takes place in the jury room at

21 3:44 p.m.)

22 THE COURT: I always wanted to see what the

23 inside of a jury room in action was. Now I see.
24 I am authorized by all the lawyers to come in and
25 tell you this instead of bringing you out, asking you the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9631

1 question, let you come back, write another note and have

2 you come back again.

3 There is no redirect. There is cross.

4 THE FOREMAN: Cross. I apologize. That's what I

5 wanted.

6 THE COURT: All right. We will give you that

7 now.

8 You have the charges here, right?

9 A JUROR: Yes, right here.

10

11 (Whereupon, at this time the following takes

12 place in open court.)

13 THE COURT: I told them there was no redirect. I

14 said there was direct and cross.

15 They said we do not mean redirect. We meant

16 cross. All said that.

17 We are now bringing them in. We will do it until

18 4:00 o'clock.

19 THE MARSHAL: Jury entering.

20 (The jury enters the courtroom at 3:47 p.m.)

21 THE COURT: Be seated, members of the jury. We

22 will utilize all the time between now and 4:00 o'clock.

23 I promised one of your members who looks finely
24 attired, so I don't know which one it is, that we will
25 break at 4:00 o'clock.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER


9632

1 Direct examination by the defendant Martin

2 Reffsin, page 7945, line 15, by Mr. Wallenstein.

3 (The Court reads from the testimony as

4 indicated.)

5 THE COURT: It is now almost 4:00 o'clock, and we

6 will break. I will finish the last three pages on

7 Monday.

8 JUROR NO. 4: What time?

9 THE COURT: 9:30.

10 Members of the jury, we will recess until Monday,

11 March 30th at 9:30 sharp.

12 In the meantime, stop deliberating. Do not talk

13 about the case. Never say anything about went on in that

14 jury room. It is inviolate. You must never -- your oath

15 requires you never to reveal that. Do not discuss

16 anything with members of the jury whom you may know how to

17 communicate with. Do not do it.

18 We will recess until Monday, 9:30.

19 Have a nice weekend and enjoy your party today.

20 See you all on Monday.

21 (The jury leaves the courtroom at 4:00 o'clock p.m.)

22 THE CLERK: Jury notes, Court Exhibit 16, Court

23 Exhibit 17.
24 (Case on trial adjourned until 9:30 o'clock a.m.,
25 Monday, March 30th, 1998.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER