1 (Case called.)
2 THE COURT: Good morning.
3 Two announcements. One, Juror 1 had some
4 difficulty getting out of his driveway this morning --
5 have a seat -- and will be here shortly. He had to take a
6 cab but will get here one way or the other. In fact, he
7 phoned that he will be getting into a cab, so he will be
8 delayed slightly.
9 Secondly, Juror 8 reported in her car this
10 morning she was tapped in the rear by the car apparently
11 driven by defendant Reffsin. It is not a big thing. And
12 related that defendant Reffsin opened his window and said
13 I'm sorry. What else could he do? It had nothing to do
14 with her being on the jury, she said, has a completely
15 open mind and related that to us and I intend to have her
16 stay on the jury.
17 MR. REFFSIN: I apologize, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: We'll wait for the jury thing.
19 MR. TRABULUS: There is one thing before the jury
20 comes out. In Ms. Gaspar's, in one of the items, a memo
21 by Agent Jordan that is known as 3500-4A, there's a
22 reference to "I prepared this memorandum --"
23 THE COURT: You are speaking very rapidly,
24 Mr. Trabulus. What you say generally makes sense, so that
25 is all right. But you talk very rapidly. You have to
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1696
1 slow down. You might be before j udges who think much
2 faster than I do, see, and they may be able to keep up
3 with you, I can't.
4 MR. TRABULUS: Judge, what I was saying is I
5 received a typewritten memorandum and it says it was
6 prepared from memory and from notes taken during the
7 interview of Ms. Gaspar on that date. I haven't gotten
8 the handwritten notes, I've gotten handwritten notes from
9 earlier interviews. If they are still in existence for
10 this interview I believe I should get them.
11 THE COURT: Yes. Are they still in existence.
12 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, I don't know. My
13 understanding Mr. Trabulus is not entitled to drafts of
14 this memorandum and therefore he wouldn't also be required
15 to be entitled to have the notes which have been reduced
16 to a formal memoranda.
17 THE COURT: I don't know whether that is so or
18 not. Where did you get that authority from? He would be
19 entitled to have original notes, not drafts in that, for
20 example, if there were three drafts of the typewritten
21 memorandum, he would not be entitled to that, but he would
22 be entitled to the original notes. Where do you get the
23 idea he would not? If there are original notes.
24 MR. WHITE: At one time the original notes were
25 there, but I have to see whether or not they exist.
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 THE COURT: If they do tell me.
2 MR. WHITE: All right.
3 THE COURT: Anything else, Mr. Trabulus?
4 MR. TRABULUS: That's it.
5 THE COURT: He should be here very shortly.
6 (Short recess taken.)
7 (Jury enters.)
8 THE COURT: Good morning, members of the jury.
9 Please be seated.
10 We appreciate your continued diligence, even
11 though there are acts of God preventing people from
12 getting here, they get here anyway. That's great.
13 Ms. Gaspar, you are still under oath. Do you
14 understand that?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 M A R I A G A S P A R , having been previously sworn by
17 the Clerk of the Court, was examined and testified as
18 follows:
19 FURTHER CROSS-EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. TRABULUS:
21 Q Good morning, Ms. Gaspar. I'm Bruce Gordon's
22 lawyer.
23 When you worked at Who's Who, where physically
24 did you work in the offices?
25 A In the Lake Success facility.
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1698
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 Q Beg your pardon?
2 A In Lake Success.
3 Q Is that where you worked?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did you work at Sterling at all?
6 A No.
7 Q So you basically just worked at the Lake Success
8 facilities; is that correct?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q Can you describe those facilities for us?
11 A The whole facilities?
12 Q Well, why don't we just limit it to the area where
13 you worked.
14 A I had an office with a desk, computer, file cabinets.
15 Q And what other offices where you by?
16 A To my right I remember was a computer person.
17 Q Who was that, Mr. Kohler?
18 A Gary something.
19 Q Gary Kohler?
20 A To my left was the administration office.
21 Q And that included Liz Sautter?
22 A Liz Sautter and a whole bunch of other people.
23 Q Who with respect the other people?
24 A There were so many, I don't know.
25 Jeanine (ph), Wendy, I can't remember.
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1699
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 THE COURT: Jeanine, how do you spell that?
2 THE WITNESS: J-e-i-n-e -- the best I know.
3 BY MR. TRABULUS:
4 Q Was that a suite of offices?
5 A One office.
6 Q And they all worked there?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, during -- and that's to your left and I think
9 you mentioned Mr. Kohler was to your right; is that
10 correct?
11 A That's correct.
12 Q What was beyond Mr. Kohler to your right?
13 A Behind?
14 Q Beyond.
15 A To his right was, I believe, Cara Green's office.
16 Q And that would be somebody in the sales department;
17 is that correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q What was beyond the administration office to your
20 left?
21 A There was nothing behind. There was something going
22 that way (indicating) which would have been to the left
23 and there was Mr. Gordon's office.
24 Q To get to Mr. Gordon's office you would have to pass
25 by the administration; is that correct?
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1700
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay.
3 Now, was there also like a cafeteria type
4 facility within the offices, a lunchroom with machines in
5 it?
6 A There was a cafeteria of some kind, yes.
7 Q A lunchroom with machines in it?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And people could go there and eat their lunch?
10 A I believe so.
11 Q Did you sometimes eat your lunch there?
12 A No.
13 Q During the course of a typical day, would you spend
14 the entire day sitting at your desk in your office or
15 would you go out of the office from time to time?
16 A I would eventually get out of my office.
17 Q Who would you normally speak to during the course of
18 a day?
19 A Very open question. Whoever.
20 Q In other words, basically you could talk to anybody
21 as the need arose?
22 A Hello, good morning, good afternoon.
23 Q Not just talking about that. But in terms of things
24 relating to the business, things you had to do, who would
25 you typically speak to?
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1701
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 A Business directly, would be with Mr. Gordon or
2 anybody in the division office or Gary, if there was any
3 computer problem.
4 Q Would you sometimes speak to the people in the Public
5 Affairs or Public Relations office such as Susan Konopka
6 or any of those people?
7 A If there were any issues related to payments, yes,
8 they would come to my office or I would have to go to
9 their office and discuss whatever the subjects were.
10 Q Is it fair to say although it may -- withdrawn.
11 Is it fair to say from time to time you might
12 speak to anybody who worked in the company except perhaps,
13 leaving aside for now the salespeople, as the need arose?
14 A Regarding financial subjects, yes.
15 Q Did you sometimes speak to people in the sales
16 department also?
17 A Very seldom.
18 Q That would only be if something came up with them
19 relating to financial matters; is that correct?
20 A I really didn't have anything to do in that respect.
21 Q Were some of them paid at least partially on a
22 commission basis?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did you ever get into any discussions with them as to
25 whether or not their commissions had been computed
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1702
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 properly or anything like that?
2 A Payroll was not handled personally by me.
3 Q But you were familiar with it?
4 A I was familiar with it, yes.
5 Q It was handled by ADP?
6 A Yes. The preparation was done mainly by Elizabeth
7 Sautter. She would ask me to review it and it would be
8 transmitted to ADP.
9 Q During the course of a day -- well, withdrawn.
10 You testified that although you were hired as a
11 comptroller, you worked really more as a bookkeeper; is
12 that correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Can you tell the members of the jury the difference
15 between a comptroller, as you see it, and a bookkeeper?
16 A A bookkeeper is more doing clerical work and being
17 guided by a supervisor. A comptroller or assistant
18 comptroller, they would be taking charge of some of the
19 financial requests and obligations that were necessary.
20 Q Would it be fair to say that a comptroller --
21 withdrawn.
22 So in your view, what you were doing is primarily
23 a bookkeeper; is that correct?
24 A Yes, because I could not make any decisions.
25 Q And a comptroller would be making decisions; is that
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1703
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you have the title chief financial officer?
4 A That's how I was hired, yes.
5 Q You were hired through an ad in the newspaper; is
6 that right?
7 A Yes.
8 Q You didn't go through this recommended by anyone?
9 A No, it was an ad in the paper.
10 Q During the course of your work, did you do some work
11 with regard to payroll?
12 A I used to fill in for Elizabeth whenever she was tied
13 up.
14 Q Elizabeth being Elizabeth Sautter?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q When you filled in for her, what did you do?
17 A I just gave the information to ADP and transmitted
18 it.
19 Q And you became familiar with the various peoples'
20 salaries who worked there?
21 A Tell you the truth, I was concerned more about doing
22 the input, not concerned with what anyone was particularly
23 earning.
24 Q So are you telling me you don't know what people were
25 earning?
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1704
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 A Uhm, very few people. I can't tell you what they
2 were earning.
3 Q What were you earning?
4 A $1,200.
5 Q $1,200 a week?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q Is that what you started at?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q So what does that come out to per year? $60,000?
10 A 60,000.
11 Q Now, do you know what Liz Sautter earned?
12 A The same amount of money.
13 Q Same as you?
14 A Umm-hmm.
15 Q Isn't it the fact that she earned more and you
16 resented it?
17 A Me, no.
18 Q Wasn't she in a supervisory position vis-a-vis you in
19 different respects?
20 A Totally different, supposedly finance.
21 Q You said "supposedly," I just want to know. Are you
22 telling me you weren't doing the financial work?
23 A Not to the full capacity that a comptroller would do.
24 Q What you are saying is you weren't functioning as a
25 comptroller?
OWEN M. WICKER, RPR OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
1705
Gasper-cross/Trabulus
1 A That's correct.
Whether or not this is the Dirty Trial In American History may be open to debate.
Without a doubt, however, it is surely one of the most bizarre.
To continue this fascinating testimony and undercurrents of the power game,
here is a full version of Jan 28 transcript here
here is a full version of Jan 28 transcript here
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| The List Transcript USA's Best Managing Directors Dirty Jury? Politics |
| The List Transcript USA's Best Managing Directors Dirty Jury? Politics |
This site is concerned with The Smashing of Who's Who Worldwide Executive Club, and the double scandal of government and judical corruption in one of the Dirty Trials In American History and the concomitant news media blackout regarding this astonishing story.
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